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January 29, 2010
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Evolutionist vs Creationist by gatorvenom Evolutionist vs Creationist by gatorvenom
My take on the debate between evolutionists and creationists. Did this after reading [link] which explains why evolution is more guess-work than science. The most interesting point the article made was how fields of science like astronomers and archaeologists do not pay any attention to creationist ideas even though their work goes against creationist views. Other scientists have physical matter which they can actually perform real world scientific experiments on while evolutionists only have a theory and conjecture. And now we come to the heart of the matter. Evolutionists vs Creationists is not science vs religion; it's religion vs religion.

For the record, I'm a christian and I like science. Maybe someone should put that on a t-shirt. I have no interest in debating this issue. There are other places you can do that if you would like.

Update: The comic does not represent the views of any evolutionist or creationist and is not based on any facts what so ever. Evolution does not state how life began.
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MenollySagittaria Featured By Owner Dec 9, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Haha, this is hilarious!

As for the link, wow, the social sciences and psychology must give this guy heart palpitations. ;) It's all theoretical models and proposed frameworks. But what would we do without them? :)

If you like the hard sciences, good on you. Guess what? We cannot reproduce evolution to test it. We can't resurrect a dead species (well, we can, but on an extremely individual basis and natural selection as it operated was on large populations) and make a magic million-year-time-machine to make it breed and mutate while we observe, or re-create the environment it grew up in. A tiny sliver of fossils only ever get preserved. They have to go off less evidence than a decades old cold case murder mystery. Cut 'em some slack.

He needs to get the tight out of his wad and recognize that ecologists and biologists are working with a limited parameter here, one that grows increasingly narrow as species die off. Oh, and coming under attack by Christians and defending themselves is weird? Christians lay off astronomers nowadays, and they are intensely concerned with the origin of life because it's the origin of us. What if the proverbial bobcat has been abused by humans: wouldn't it be logical that if would try to tear you to pieces?

I agree that evolution does not explain how life got here, but think of the poor souls. They're probably jealous of how comparatively straightforward and demonstrable other science is.

By the way, "rapid" by punctual equilibrium standards is still incredibly, incredibly slow by every other measure. Each species has a different mutation rate. That we have reliably established.

For a few of the other specifics:

1. Can a mutation lead to an extra vertebrae? If you studied embryology, you'd know that the formation of the formation of the notochord and other pre-formations are open to changes in genes directing their development. Sure, looking at an adult animal it seems improbable, but that's the adult animal. If a gene can get rid of a dolphin's entire back limbs (we've found dolphins with vestigial ones) then what is the big deal in lengthening the spine? Taller peoples' spines are whole foots over shorter people's, but they're fine. The body adjusts its cellular structures accordingly, unless it's too much of a change for it to handle, and the mutation ends up negative. The body is not interlocking, rigid gears. It's flexible and adaptable in itself.

2. How does color vision evolve, if the chemistry of the eye and the brain have to adjust? Haha, that's a lot easier to swallow than the development of the eye itself from simply clumps of photosensitive cells, but okay, I'll bite. The brain, as you may or may not know, is adaptive, especially in the infantile stages of life. If neurons are getting a "new" message (a bit or the whole color spectrum, it doesn't matter) they will incorporate this information by forming different structures of dendrite webs. Simple. This animal now may have an advantage over its black and white experiencing neighbors.

3. The catepillar, I'm not sure of. I admit it's puzzling. But, if the author wants a guess, which he probably doesn't, seeing as he has a bias against the imagination which drives biological understanding, perhaps the cocoon began as a resting or hibernation state for the caterpillar. It wrapped itself to camoflage and protect from predators, then re-emerged and chowed down some more. The scales on a butterfly's wings allow it to absorb heat. Maybe that was their original purpose, before they evolved into actual wings. But, look at the abundance of larval stages of insects. Are you also going to take them each one by one and ask an expert how they got to their adult forms? That will take your whole lifetime, as they are like the most abundant land animal on the planet, so good luck.

4. The rapidity of human thought. If you study animal intelligence, you'd be less likely to say this was a "sudden" development so much as the next logical step. Why didn't it evolve earlier? Well gee, we had mass extinctions earlier. Else, velociraptors might be building some equivalent to the pyramids millions of years before this point in time. If he also lacks the imagination to realize that some advantages gained later became liability to other animals, therefore can't apply it to human circumstances, I can't do anything for him. Everything is a mix of advantage and disadvantage, including his own example of peacocks, which he correctly recognized the error of ascribing conscious thought to. Human breasts are proposed to attract mates also, since we have a relatively hidden ovulation, a negligible "in heat" cycle. Non-attraction to wide hips and waist is a narrow and specific cultural preference, not held in other parts or times of the world. Chubby females are and were sometimes considered beautiful and healthy, able to nurse and provide. Blatantly racist statements discounting the influence of environment on IQ won't get him anywhere except in the crossfire of hatred, either.

I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish with this, besides one big long complain fest.
gatorvenom Featured By Owner Dec 9, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
All great points. I'm not sure why I leave this comic up on here after almost 4 years, but it's always nice to be reminded how much of an idiot I was and likely still am. I've since given up on most of my previous opinions on religion, politics, and economics.

I just like to draw now. That's all I really know.
Mike-the-cat Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2013
I'm religious, and a conservative, but I side with evolution.
gatorvenom Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I used to be all those as well. Evolution is just change over time. Change has been the only constant in my religious and political views.
YNot1989 Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Evolution does not suppose how life began, only how it has changed. The theory that life formed spontaniously (which we can replicate to some degree in the lab) is the theory of abiogenesis, which most of the scientific community will admit, while probable, may not have been the way life arose on Earth. There is a lot of evidence for Panspermia (also testable to some degree in the lab) as well.
gatorvenom Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You're late to the show but thanks for the comments.
Tetrigon Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2011
Maybe you could just change the title to Abiogenisist vs Creationist. It would make sense then.
gatorvenom Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Had I been more knowledgeable about the topic, that would have been perfect. Thanks for the informed comment.
Tetrigon Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2011
You're welcome.:)
Aravelle Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2010
I just read the comic, and all the comments. Your views are marvelous, I like the way you look at things. :3
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